James Loy:

College athletics have long been an important part of university life. Athletic programs can create excitement and community on campus. They keep alumni school spirt alive, and they can even boost a school’s profile across the nation.

But behind all the loyalty and legacy, there can also be a darker side to college athletics.

If you follow the headlines, you’ll see criticisms of a system that can sometimes overpay coaches, while overworking students.

The pressures of highly competitive programs can also leave some players feeling isolated, and struggling to balance athletics with other aspects of life.

Today, the rights of student-athletes are also taking center-stage, including serious debates around whether student athletes should be able to earn money off of their name, image and likeness.

These are all issues that are bringing college athletics to game-changing new crossroads, and they are among the issues that concern Dr. Brian Janssen.

Dr. Janssen is one of the only full-time student affairs educators in the nation who specializes in connecting the athletic and academic sides of college. He sees athletics as a vibrant, and vital, part of universities.

But he is also aware of how the rights and wellbeing of student athletes can erode if they become too disconnected from the rest of college life. So his mission is to help student athletes thrive – not only on the field – or court – but inside the classroom, and out in the community, and even after they graduate.

Brian Janssen:

I think part of it’s reframing what athletics is, and where it fits within the university community, in order … for the rest of the campus to understand exactly how multi-faceted athletics is.

(Transition MUSIC)

James Loy:

Brian Janssen holds a degree in educational leadership from Miami University, and today he is a Faculty Athletic Representative for Portland State University.

He also advocates for student rights as part of the NCAA’s Executive Council of the Faculty Athletics Representatives Association.

Dr. Janssen, I certainly want to talk about some of the big issues in college athletics today – student athlete rights, and certainly the debate around name, image and likeness.

But first, what does it mean to be a Faculty Athletic Representative, and what is your main role in connecting athletics and academics?

Brian Janssen:

So, I'm kind of unique in the fact that I'm a full-time student affairs educator, who holds a faculty position. And so, a lot of the time, my connections aren't just the academic side of the house to athletics, it's also for the student affairs side of the university to athletics.

So, one of the main roles is to be that academic liaison, but also to look out for student athlete wellbeing. And this is where I think my student affairs background is very helpful. Because thinking about student development, and student identity development, that translates over well to athletics. And so, how are we supporting our student athletes? What does their academic and athletic experience look like? How are they engaging outside of the classroom?

Some of these are hard questions, too, because a lot of athletes may or may not engage that much outside of athletics and academics. And so, one of the things that I've been trying to help with over the past few years, is connecting athletes to different leadership roles on campus, getting to see themselves - not just in a dualistic manner as a student and an athlete -- but also as leaders.

And their leadership positions on campus are different than a lot of traditional leaders. But it doesn't mean that they're not leading our campus environments, or that they're not doing things like community service. There's a lot out there about athletics that people don't understand, and a lot of it … it's hidden, because it's not front page news, especially if you're not a big football school. What people fail to see is the everyday life of athletics, and athletes, and what that looks like, and how impressive it is.

James Loy:

Can you go into a little more detail on that? What are some of the things that student athletes face that people don’t often see? Or, what is it about their day-to-day life that they manage that isn’t as often apparent beyond their traditional role that people see as an athlete?

Brian Janssen:

I think there's a lot of pressure. I think the reason a lot of athletes isolate themselves a little bit -- and I was a student athlete. So I'm also speaking from my own experience a little bit. Because there's this pressure to perform, right. People’s jobs are on the line. Coaches. People we care about. Friends. So the notion that student athletes isolate themselves a little bit is very real. And I think that one of the challenges with that is athletes -- if they hold a really strong athletic identity, and that's one of the only dimensions of their identity that develops -- when that athletic career is over, it can be really hard to navigate even general life. For a lot of students, even leaving school is hard. Imagine you've been building up this identity since maybe you were 4, 5, 6 years old, and all of a sudden this huge portion of your identity is taken away. That can lead to a lot of different type of trauma. It can lead to mental health issues, depression, drug use.

So a lot of it is - as the student athletes transition out of being an athlete - what does that next stage of life look like for them?

And, of course, if they haven't had the ability to develop some of those career ambitions, or think about that stuff while they were in college, because they were so ingrained with athletics, and they never found that balance, I think that that's where it can be a little bit troublesome.

And a lot of folks are researching this now, looking at mental health issues and student athletes, looking at transition issues and student athletes. And so, compared to when I was a student athlete, people weren't really talking about it. You just graduated and then you moved on. But now I'm glad to see that there are people researching it. So hopefully we can try and provide more support for student athletes as they're transitioning out of that athletic dimension of their identity into whatever the next stage might be for them.

And, of course, student athlete rights and well-being are kind of taking center stage right now in the collegiate athletic realm. And so, I think part of that focus will include more holistic development options for student athletes as they work their way through their university career.

James Loy:

What does that conversation look like, at the moment, around the student rights that athletes have, or that they should have? How is that unfolding currently?

Brian Janssen:

Starting a couple years ago, there's a big push to really put some time demand limitations into the NCAA legislation. And so, thinking about student athlete rights: One of those rights is making sure that they're almost protected from being overworked by coaches, or by athletic administrators, asking them to do things like meet with donors, or be at events, or be at practices and watch film.

And, again, I’m not knocking those areas. Because I think that that's their job, and that's an important part of it. But the student athlete rights portion comes in where they were advocating to have a little bit more balance. So that's one area that's actually been legislated now by the NCAA.

Some of the other stuff that's coming down the pipe: Name, image and likeness. I think that this is on the front page. This is the big topic right now that people are really looking into. And it's interesting because there was pretty big push back from the NCAA early on. And then, we started having lawmakers and senators getting involved in the conversation, and actually passing legislation in their states that would make this legal by 2023. So I think the NCAA was almost forced into a more progressive perspective when it comes to name, image and likeness.

And from my perspective -- I will say that my views are on the more liberal side when it comes to student athletes and student athlete rights -- I believe they should be able to earn money off of their name, image and likeness. I think it has to come with structure. I think it has to come with some sensible options, where student athletes can engage. But the irony is: It's not going to impact the amount of student athletes that people think it's going to. It's not like every student athlete all of a sudden is going to have the ability to make $100,000 a year.

In reading about some of this, the projections that I’m seeing are …. there'll be a top 25-30 athletes, there'll be some local athletes in smaller towns who get money from local sponsors. But it's not always the people … the student athletes that folks think are actually going to be the big earners. Most people think it would be basketball. Men's basketball. Women's basketball. And football. But there are gymnasts on the list. There are volleyball players on the list. So the notion that it's always only going to be particularly male athletes, or maybe women's basketball players, who are going to be earning this money is also kind of a misconception that I think a lot of people hold.

But, again, I think it needs to come with some structure to protect the student athletes from rogue agents and donors, and to protect the universities from potential liability and lawsuits if something goes wrong.

But at the end of the day, that will be a big win for student athletes in terms of being able to do that. And I’m glad to see that the NCAA is moving forward in a more progressive way than they have in the past.

(Transition MUSIC)

James Loy:

As the issue around name, image and likeness rights continues to take center stage, so far both Colorado and California have passed their own state legislation giving college athletes the right to start earning money beginning in 2023. And almost two dozen other states are now considering similar laws.

This, Janssen says, has effectively nullified any previous NCAA guidelines around the issue. Because they can’t simply allow these rights to take effect without first considering all the ramifications that will inevitably arise, they must now give serious thought to what this might actually look like for schools.

Take California for example …

Brian Janssen:

Even if they were the only state to do it, there's so many schools in California, if all sudden student athletes could go to California and earn money, it would just cause chaos within the system, right. The recruiting advantage that those schools would have. The amount of money they would be able to bring in from donors would be outrageous. So I think the NCAA realized that they have to get some structure around it, and I do anticipate that will probably happen next year, for next year. Year 21-22.

James Loy:

Now, this is what’s been making headlines. This is a big story. This is what a lot of people are talking about. But does it go back to what you said earlier about people failing to see what the everyday life of athletes look like?

So this is a really big deal, for students to be able to earn money of their name, image and likeness. But since it might only affect a small percentage of players who will get that shoe deal, or their face in a video game. Because few ever reach that elite level, and maybe go pro.

So in the grand scheme of things, when it comes to student rights, are other issues like being overworked, and that time-life balance issue actually a bigger problem? Because it would inevitably affect a higher percentage of all players, even those who would never get that big corporate sponsorship, for example?

Brian Janssen:

Yeah. The time demands will impact everybody, versus the name, image, likeness, which will impact a small percentage. But, again, I think it's just giving folks the option, if they have those opportunities, to be able to do it. And I think there's also this big assumption that the name, image, likeness all has to do with sports-related type of things.

There are student athletes who own small businesses, who are creative, who have talents outside of athletics, who have, in many ways, not been able to profit from those.

So, let's say it's a student athlete who's a really great musician. Right now there's a lot of questions of whether they would be able to earn income by giving music lessons because it may mean that they're profiting off of their athletic image, right?

And so, compared to the general student body, who would never have … that conversation would never come up. It seems reasonable, again, with structure, that student athletes would be able to take advantage of either their athletic identity and name and image, or other identities that they hold: Such as being a musician, or artist, or whatever other talents they may have. Just the same as if any other student or faculty or staff member can do that.

James Loy:

That’s a good point. Because that gets back to not just seeing athletes in just this one dimensional identity, but… you know, they have other things going on than just being an athlete.

And this whole rights conversation fits into … you say social justice is a big part of your job, it’s a big priority fighting for what you feel student athletes deserve. But how else does the social justice piece fit in?

Brian Janssen:

Yeah, I think the whole name, image, likeness kind of stems from this idea that universities have been taking advantage of student athletes, in particular men and women of color, who are participating in the high profile sports, right. Where student athletes come and we give them something. But the university gets a lot more in exchange for what they're getting, right. Their rights are trampled on. They don't have the same access to things like transfer as other students do. So the transfer one is a really interesting concept because most conferences have an inner conference transfer rule, which states that if you are a student athlete and you want to transfer to another school within your conference, that you have to sit out one or two year’s worth of competition.

But that doesn't … no one else at the university has that. A faculty member can leave and take a new contract at another school, and they don't ask them to sit out a year of teaching. Coaches can leave and go in the same conference. And athletic administrators can.

And so, I think, for me, where the social justice piece comes in, is trying to provide some sort of equity when it comes to issues like this. And the transfer one is a big issue that is not always the front page headline. But I think is really, really important moving forward. If there's going to be equality within NCAA athletics, that has to be addressed. And right now, there is a transfer working group who is looking at this type of stuff. And I think that -- other than the name, image and likeness -- that will be a key piece of legislation moving forward.

James Loy:

You mean literally just transferring from one school to another? Like, you get accepted to one school to play this particular sport, but you want to leave … you're just stuck there?

Brian Janssen:

So, for example, if you're at university A, and you are offered a one-year financial aid agreement, right -- because a lot of schools only offer student athletes one year of financial aid agreements, and it comes to the end of that year, and, for whatever reason, you haven't had a good experience. You're homesick. Whatever it is. You want to transfer to school B, who's in the same conference, In most cases, yes, unless there's an extraordinary circumstance, which is completely subjective, you would have to sit out a year. And I just don't believe … student athletes come to school to be students and to be athletes, and I don't think that we should ever be asking them to sit out.

As long as they're academically eligible, and meeting the criteria, and they've done what they needed to do at their former institution -- I totally understand the competitive nature of coaches, and not wanting to play against your former students -- but if you could have an assistant coach, who goes and becomes the head coach at another school in your conference, that also seems like a competitive disadvantage to me. So, if a coach can do it. Why can't a student athlete do it?

(Transition MUSIC)

James Loy:

Dr. Janssen, I want to go back to how you bridge athletics and academics. College sports has a big place on so many college campuses. And whether you’re a Division 1, 2, or 3 school, there is generally some level of school spirit, and regardless of how big of a program or team you’re a part of, athletic identity can still be a big part of a student’s life.

But sometimes it seems like there are some faculty, staff, administrators, whoever. They sometimes think college athletics might get too much attention, or require too many resources, that could go to other more academically focuses programs that are the “true purpose” of college.

So, what do you say to people who think that athletics should not be as big a priority on campus? And along with that, what some of the benefits you do think that athletics bring to the overall college experience?

Brian Janssen:

So, when I talk with faculty about student athletes, I try and encourage them to focus on the individual student themselves, and how that student is doing in class, and what that student is bringing to the university community. Because, as I said before, this is their leadership role. This is their opportunity to share their skills with the university community, and beyond, to be liaisons for the university in multiple contexts, both regional and national, and sometimes international.

So, when I talk with faculty about this exact issue, especially in terms of… right now, we're going to face some hard fiscal times, right. Most universities with the COVID situation are going to be looking to tighten their belts a little bit. And athletics is… often has an easy target on its back. Because it doesn't necessarily meet traditional standards of academia. But, like I said, I try and get them … to get faculty and even other staff on campus, student affairs people as well, to see these students as leaders, and this is just their leadership opportunity, and they are liaisons.

I think that athletics on a university campus can really build a lot of community and excitement. But it can't be isolated. I think that where a lot of athletic departments get into trouble is when they are completely isolated from the rest of the institution.

So I believe that athletics is a part of the institution, and it needs to be viewed that way. A lot of student athletes are out there doing amazing things, whether it's academically or in the community, and those insights need to be shared more widely, so that people don't view it as just these people who come to school, and, yeah, they go to classes, but they're mainly there for athletics. Because a very small percentage, as you mentioned earlier, of student athletes will ever go pro, or make money off of being an athlete. And so, how do universities highlight the different ways that student athletes and athletic departments are contributing beyond the field? I think that that's a really important factor in how the athletic department is received at an institution.

And my advice would be -- to any athletic director or coaches -- when your student athletes are getting these accolades, whether it's high GPAs, or whether it's service learning opportunities, whatever it is, put it out there. Because that's important. It also gives the athletes self-efficacy in that area as well. It's great if you're on the front page of the local newspaper, or school newspaper, for your athletic achievements. But it also reinforces this dualistic notion that the student … that the athletic identity is the most important part.

Oftentimes you don't see on the front page: “15 student athletes do community service.” Or, “15 student athletes have high GPAs,” or are part of really elite academic programs. And so, I think part of it’s reframing what athletics is, and where it fits within the university community, in order … for the rest of the campus to understand exactly how multi-faceted athletics is.

James Loy:

Is that changing, do you think? Do you get the sense that that awareness is growing, where it’s not so disconnected with athletics over “here” and academics over “there?”

Brian Janssen:

I would say in recent years it has changed a little bit. But I would say, with our current situation right now, it's going to change a lot, right.

Higher education, in general, really … it's changed some over the past 20-30 years. But going through what we're going through right now, this is going to be, in my opinion, a landscape changer for the world of higher education within the United States. So I’m not going predict too much about what might happen. But I’m curious to see, when we come out of this COVID situation, exactly how institutions are going to have been changed, and where athletics fits into this new model of what university life might look.

James Loy:

And I don't want to ask you to predict because obviously the COVID thing has shaken up any industry you can think about, and no one knows what’s going to happen. So without asking you to predict, what is it about the existing structure that you think might get shaken up?

Brian Janssen:

If you've done research about college athletics in the past 5-7 years, there's been massive inflation in things like coaching salaries, right. And I think we're gonna start seeing some of that come down a little bit. I understand that it's kind of the way of the world, and it's the market. But I can see universities saying, “When our highest paid public official in the state is a football coach, that's kind of problematic.”

So I can see that being one area where universities start to kind of tighten the belt a little bit. And maybe that inflation goes down. It might not. It kind of depends on what the new normal looks like.

Are there going to be 100,000 people in stadiums in the next two years? If not, how does a university justify paying coaches and millions and millions of dollars if the student athletes can't play, and the fans can't attend? So I think that those are some of the hard questions. Again, I don't want to predict. But I think those are some of the hard questions that are going to come up over the next couple of years.

Again, trying to reframe where athletics might fit within the institutional model.

It'll be interesting to see where college athletics goes. Over the past couple years … I've been to the NCAA convention for the past 2-3 years, and esports is one of the things that keeps coming up. So where does esports, and gaming fit within the NCAA structure? Does it fit there? Because that's a digital way for people to be able to engage. It’s a non-traditional athletic way. But one of the changes that we're seeing right now, obviously in higher education, is more digital access, more digital learning. And so, it may mean that sports in the future also has this digital component to it that works through an esports-type of structure. And there are some schools out there that have amazing esports programs, and they're getting 5-10 thousand students to engage in that. So I’m curious to see, as we come out on the other end of this COVID situation, will esports start taking more of a prominent place on university campuses?

James Loy:

Yeah, actually, our last episode, our most recent Reframe podcast was all about esports, and how Miami is making strides in that area, and how it’s becoming a bigger thing culturally, and even here on campus.

Brian Janssen:

Yeah, I do think moving forward that will be a unique new aspect to college and university life.

James Loy:

Absolutely. Well, Dr. Brian Janssen, thank you so much for that current look into the current state of college athletics, and your insight on some of the big, major issues facing the industry today.

Brian Janssen:

Yeah, of course. Thanks for the opportunity. I appreciate it. 

James Loy:

Dr. Brian Janssen is a Faculty Athletic Representative for Portland State University. And he is also a graduate of Miami University’s department of Educational Leadership

This is the Reframe Podcast. We have many more episodes available, for free, right now, wherever podcasts are found.