Intro Speaker Male:

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast by the host and guests may or may not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Miami University.

Intro Speaker Female:

I am going into my last semester of chemical engineering.

Intro Speaker Male:

I'm a senior journalism major.

Intro Speaker Female:

And I'm minoring in supply chain and operations management.

Intro Speaker Male:

I'm a biochemistry major.

Intro Speaker Male:

Classes are going great. Extracurriculars are going great.

Intro Speaker Female:

I'm an RA on campus.

Intro Speaker Male:

I'm thriving.

Jason Meggyesy:

Hi, I'm Jason Meggyesy. And this is Major Insight. This is the podcast where we talk college life with amazing students about how to find your place and purpose on campus.

Mary Culp has deep convictions about making education accessible for all learners, and today she is well on her way to becoming a special education teacher. We’ll also talk about adjusting to college after moving away from home for the first time – about how Mary overcame that uncertainly, and about how she was finally able to focus in on the things that mattered to her most.

Mary, how are you doing?

Mary Culp:

I'm great. How are you?

Jason Meggyesy:

I'm very well. Just real quick. Give an introduction. Who are you? Where are you from? All that nice stuff.

Mary Culp:

All right. My name is Mary Culp. I'm from Zionsville, which is a suburb of Indianapolis. It's about two hours away. I'm majoring in inclusive special education. I have a minor in disability studies, and I'm getting an endorsement or a certificate in TESOL, which is teaching English for speakers of other languages.

Jason Meggyesy:

Just describe to me, before college, your experience with special education and how you kind of came up on this major.

Mary Culp:

Yeah. I grew up around a lot of people with a network of neurodiverse people. I had just people in my life kind of from a pretty young age with different disabilities or special needs, and that was a really formative experience because I saw not only how much I loved my friends and how deeply I cared for them, but also the ways that a lot of times their needs weren't being met specifically in the realm of education. So I think that I saw this from a pretty young age and knew that I wanted to be a part of making a change, but I didn't really know what it meant to be a special educator ... or an intervention specialist until I came to Miami. And so it was this neat thing where I had this kind of semi-formed, pretty nebulous idea of what I wanted to do. And then as I got to Miami, declared my major. I started taking classes. I started to take shape where I was like, "Wow, okay. I really like this. I think this is what I meant to do." I was pre-law for a little bit at Miami as well, because I was really interested in the sphere of advocacy or educational law or educational justice or special ed law. But I've been in the classroom this semester. And honestly, I don't know if I could go away from the classroom.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. So talk to me about your college search experience. Where else were you looking? How did you finally end up choosing Oxford to be your home for the four years that you've been here?

Mary Culp:

Yeah. I was looking at four different schools. Three of them were in state and the fourth was Miami, which is out of state for me. And I came to Miami purely on a numbers game, honestly, because at the other three choices, the licensure was different than the one that Miami offers. Miami for special ed offers a licensure from K through 12 and mild, moderate and intense needs. So that would certify me, and that does certify me, to take any special education job after I graduate. So that coupled with enough scholarship money to make it reasonable, made it a pretty easy decision, but it was solely numbers based. I wasn't factoring in what will I do? What's the campus like? Do I feel at home here? It was like a very black and white decision. But kind of like with my major, I came to Miami and now I couldn't have pictured myself going anywhere else.

Jason Meggyesy:

And did you find it in the first year kind of hard to adjust? I mean, I know it's only two hours away, but being away from home, that changes things a little bit.

Mary Culp:

Yeah. It was a hard adjustment and a reality. I don't think I realized, living at home with my parents, how much they cared for me before everything was on my shoulders. I had to go get my own groceries. I had to cook all of my own meals, and we had a high level of personal responsibility at home. But I remember being sick one time, my freshman year, with some cold, and I was like, "No one at college is going to want to make me soup."

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. "Who's going to take care of me?"

Mary Culp:

Who's going to... It's just me. So it was a tough adjustment in that way. I liked being near enough to home that I could go home. You can do two hours in a day trip, but also far enough for me to get the independence I needed.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. I agree. I'm from Columbus and that's just two hours up the road as well. And like you said, it has that nice balance of whenever I really want to go home, I can, but I'm here on my own. So what kind of things helped you get over that uncertainty and those feelings of being on your own for the first time, freshman year?

Mary Culp:

For me, it was really about finding a community of people who cared about me because you can do the laundry and you can do the grocery shopping and all of those things you can manage, but I think there's a pretty innate part of us that does want to be cared for and be a part of a community. So for me, finding that in the context of a community of faith. I'm a Christian. My faith's important to me. So that was one of the things I sought out when I got to campus and finding people who really did want to invest in my life, walk with me, know what was going on in my life, whether it was good or whether it was hard, and just be a friend who was there for me really made a huge difference in my college career and helped me adjust to life in college.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. So what was the kind of process to wiggle through and figure out, "Oh, I don't really want to be doing this pre-law thing anymore. I just want to focus completely in on teaching"?

Mary Culp:

So honestly, I was in the pre-law classes and I learned that differently from going to med school, where you have specific classes that are required of you, to go to law school, you just need to take the LSAT. There's not like a this, this and this undergrad class in the same way that there is Ochem for med school. And so because of that, most of the pre-law courses are geared at a law school toolbox - what skills will you need and what kinds of law are there. There's criminal law. There is tax law. There is education law. There's all sorts of things. So since I know ... it's still in the back of my mind, if I ever go to law school, this will be the path I take. I didn't see the need to keep doing the exploratory classes. And so I decided to just hone in on the major classes.

Jason Meggyesy:

So what value do you think you hold in trying something, but then if it doesn't work out being okay with moving off of it?

Mary Culp:

Yeah. I would not have traded that experience for the world because now I know, if I do go down that path, what do I need. So when I realized that the information I was taking in wasn't relevant to me at that point in my college career, like I didn't need to know am I going to go into tax law or not? I'm not. There was not a need to take the classes anymore, but that learning experience of trying something and getting what is the information I need and can I pass this class was absolutely invaluable.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. I think that's a difficult thing for a lot of people coming in and they feel like they might be locked in to one specific area. And it's like, "Oh, I'm a freshmen, second-semester freshmen or first-semester sophomore, I have to do this because I don't have any more time," and all this stuff. But I think you're a great example of you tried this one thing, but it just wasn't yielding what you wanted of it. Right?

Mary Culp:

Yeah, exactly. And that is absolutely not the case, like you were saying, if you're... When I was a freshman, I felt super locked in and I felt like I was running out of time already as a freshman. And now as I reflect as a senior, and as a senior who's graduating a semester late, and I can expand on that more, I just was so not in a hurry the way I thought I was. And there's such a network of care and support from faculty advisors and from teachers where I had, somewhere along the way, internalize this pressure of I have to do everything perfect and do it on the first try and get it done and I can never drop a class, and all of that was a lie.

Jason Meggyesy:

And then if you would just expound on that idea that you were saying about you're graduating a semester late, you said? Is that right? So just expound on how that has affected your experience and shifted your mindset if it has.

Mary Culp:

Absolutely. So a little bit of backstory. Last year would have been fall 2020, middle of COVID, and I was set to start student teaching and I was really uneasy because I'd been looking forward to the student teaching experience for my whole undergraduate career. And I just kind of knew it wasn't going to look the same. I also had people in my community of faith. I led a Bible study of girls that I started leading when I was a sophomore. They were freshmen. And so we're coming up on, I'm a senior, they're juniors, and I'm not super looking forward to leaving those relationships right before their senior year. So I'm really uneasy about this teaching experience. I don't want it to be online. I want the in-person typical experience and that community aspect.

Mary Culp:

And then I'd always wanted to get the TESOL endorsement, and I hadn't declared TESOL until fall of 2020. I hadn't declared it at this point when I was deciding. I always figured I'd just go back and get it at a master's level. And my academic advisor, Dr. Sarah Watt, had become a close personal friend by this time, as well as advisor. So she and I were talking as "I'm uneasy about this," all this, and we kind of came up with a solution. What if I graduated one semester late, student taught this year, fall of 2021, and added the TESOL endorsement in the meantime? And money was a big factor of that. I didn't want to willy-nilly, flippantly spend another semester's worth of college. So we reached out to the One Stop office and they said that they would be willing to stretch my scholarship.

Mary Culp:

And so I made that decision and I could not have imagined it any other way. And now that I'm student teaching, looking back at what people experienced last year versus my experience this year, I'm really glad that I chose this path. And it's not the same path that everyone chose and the people who had a student teaching experience in fall of 2020. All of my friends in my cohort graduated, got jobs, are doing great. So that's not to say this was the only and right way, but for me, following my heart and doing what I think was right has been incredible. And so when I look back and I reflect on the freshmen who thought, "I'm already running out of time. I have to take a million credit hours because otherwise, I won't graduate on time," it's like, if only you knew what was in store.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. When it came time to decide, make that decision, how difficult... What were your feelings? Like you said, you saw all these other people going on to do other things, graduate and whatnot.

Mary Culp:

There's definitely some FOMO. The way that the inclusive special ed major works is you're with a cohort of people. So I went through the same core classes with the same, I think, 23 people. So I knew them all pretty well. I've met a lot of their parents at this point, and we have a GroupMe for our cohort. And so people are talking about, "Hey, have you guys applied for graduation yet? How's student teaching going?" all of these things. And I was like, "Oh, I'm missing out." But the mindset shift has been, I'm not missing out, they're on a different path than I am. I'm where I'm supposed to be. This is my path, and it's going really well for me. So having to lose that comparative mindset to, "Here's where other people are. Is this where I 'should be'?" and realizing that I'm right on time for the path that I'm on.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. And that's hard for a lot of people. That's hard for a lot of people. I mean, I think everyone likes to feel like they're going through something on their own, but there's 10 other students, maybe even in the same dorm or in the same class, that are thinking the same way that they are. They might feel stuck or that they're not making the right decisions or this stuff, but we're all here and we're all sharing similar experiences. Obviously, they are different in some ways, but at the end of the day, we're all students. We're all trying to figure it out.

Mary Culp:

For sure. And the comparison game, I think I learned that pretty early on is that the comparison game will kill you. If I looked at my classes, there was always going to be someone doing better than me. There was always going to be someone who came to class more put together that I did. There was always going to be someone who had a higher grade on a test. So if I was measuring my success by how am I doing compared to the people around me, that's a crippling game. But if I was measuring my success as how am I growing as a learner and what am I putting into this... Am I really trying my best to putting my all in? It sounds a little elementary, because I'm teaching that to elementary schoolers right now, but it really is true when we take our eyes off of what other people are doing and instead just put our eyes on what's in front of us, I think we grow and we flourish way more.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah, 100%. So Student Council for Exceptional Children, talk to me about that.

Mary Culp:

Student Council for Exceptional Children is the pre-professional organization for special education majors. So through the college of education here, we have a student chapter of that organization and they hosted professional development events, teacher panel, interview workshops, all sorts of things. And it was neat because there's a lot of student organizations. I learned pretty early on that I wanted to focus in on what are my values. I remember the first mega fair I ever went to. I think I signed up for actually 25 clubs, and I got the emails for them for years to come. So instead, I realized that I wanted to really invest in one or two or three clubs that mattered to me, that aligned with who I was as a person and what I valued, and one of those was SCEC because I love my major. I wanted to grow professionally, and through this organization, we got the opportunity to do that.

Jason Meggyesy:

Got you. That's awesome. Now let's shift to Access, that program. So from my understanding, it's a summer program, correct? One-week summer program where students, like yourself, are placed with students with disabilities and it gives them the opportunity to learn at the secondary level of schooling? Is that correct?

Mary Culp:

Yeah. You're right on. So Access Miami Program clinical faculty Ashley Johnson kind of spearheads this. And so one big thing we see right now in special education is, what happens after high school? What happens when students who have adaptive needs, specifically, graduate high school and need to be in the workforce, need to be working a job, need to be pursuing independence, but also need some supports to do that? What's in place for a student like that? Because a lot of times we see students with disabilities graduate and they go into just jobs that maybe aren't reaching their full potential. And a lot of times, the jobs too are not to the full scale of the job that they would give a non-disabled peer.

Mary Culp:

So Ashley started doing research on post-secondary transition programs, which is a mouthful. That just means colleges, universities that have programs for students with intellectual and developmental disabilities. That takes the shape of a summer program for one week in the summer. Students with disabilities who are at the post-secondary age are invited to come and experience and almost trial this program. So they take one class. They take it alongside same age, non-disabled peers. They eat in the dining halls. They work out in the rec center. It's really a taste of campus life as inclusively and with as much access as possible, while still meeting the support needs of students.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. And how have both these programs affected you and your involvement in them?

Mary Culp:

These programs, as well as... My favorite thing about the Miami ISE major or special ed is the field experience. So every semester, since I was a sophomore, I've been in the classroom. And now that I'm in the student teaching practicum, I'm really getting to see how the experiences that Miami has given me with fieldwork can go into the classroom with Access Miami Program and getting to work on this research and getting a wealth of knowledge about transition services and SCEC, kind of knowing the ins and outs of professional development, the ways that it's prepared me to be a good teacher. My colleagues have remarked on it. My host teacher has remarked on it. Really, Miami has prepared me so well to go into the field that I'm going into.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. And it seems like it's evident that you have a lot of field experience. Which one of those have you most enjoyed and why?

Mary Culp:

So my sophomore year, I had a field experience at the elementary school that I'm now student teaching at with the teacher that I'm now student teaching with. It is a lower income school in Hamilton City School District. It's on the east side. There's a pretty high poverty level. And I was afraid going to that placement because I had heard that, "Oh, the school's on the rough side of town." And just kind of the way that we've talked about poverty and the way that the maybe greater conversation is about low-income students and poverty students, I was scared to go into that placement. But when I walked in, I saw a group of educators that was committed to fostering a just environment for their students and providing security, high expectations, meeting their learning needs, and I loved it so much that I'm back. Now, I'm there every day. I would love to work in the district. I'm pursuing employment in the district and I have come to love it.

Mary Culp:

So by far, that is my favorite student teaching placement. And just seeing the ways that a group of committed educators is kind of breaking the story and refusing to look at their students as the product of their environment or a number above or below a poverty line, but instead, students who bring a wealth of knowledge to the classroom and who are capable learners and who deserve a high expectations and rigorous work. I say rigorous when I'm talking about third grade math, but it's rigorous for them. It's been such a great experience.

Jason Meggyesy:

Yeah. So you touched on it a little bit just about your growth in the student teaching position. Just at first being maybe a little apprehensive to go to this place, and now, you feel like you're flourishing there. What other ways do you think you have grown in the two or three years that you've been there?

Mary Culp:

Yeah. I think I've grown as an educator in a lot of ways, honestly because Miami has given me the chance to. It's huge to be put in front of students and trusted to teach them. So I've grown by doing in a lot of ways. Because I've gotten to learn by doing, I've learned so much over the course of the past two or three years seeing how different teachers teach, getting to observe different settings of classrooms and getting to say, along the way, over a wealth of experiences, "Oh, I really like how she did that," or, "Oh, maybe I'd do that differently." I feel like I've been collecting, over the past two or three years, different teaching practices, and now I'm getting the chance to put them all into motion.

Jason Meggyesy:

Got you. Awesome. So it's obvious. You want to be a teacher.

Mary Culp:

Yes.

Jason Meggyesy:

What does it mean to you to be an educator? What does that word mean to you?

Mary Culp:

You're hitting the head. I have philosophy of education assignment due next week, and I will answer this exact question. Maybe, I'll just link this. I think to be an educator is to know the space that you control. So for me and my kids, a lot of times, it's 30 minutes a day is the space that I can control. But then in that space, to view each student as an autonomous person who has a wealth of knowledge to bring to the classroom, to meet them with security and high expectations, and to foster growth and to foster learning. We do a lot with trauma-sensitive school practices, trauma-informed school practices.

Mary Culp:

So the other day, we had a student in one of my classes who had found out the night before that he was being evicted. 10 years old. So he's not up for math. No one blames him. But what does it look like to still meet the student exactly where he's at with a trauma-informed lens? He has his head down. No one's yelling at him, but instead to say like, "Hey, I get it. Take the time you need. When you're ready, your work is here. Let me know if you need help." And that's what I said to him, and he took two minutes with his head down, and then he came and found me and asked for a question and got to work. So in that scenario, specifically, that student needed normalcy. You needed someone with a high expectation, but also with grace and understanding.

Mary Culp:

So maybe, to be an educator, too, is to be flexible, to be ready to meet the needs of each student that comes in kind of regardless of what it is, knowing that each day will be different. But I think with that student specifically, I've been reflecting on I can't control his life. As much as I wish that I could, as much as I wish that I could change it, it's really sobering to not be able to, but I do have autonomy over these 40 minutes that he's in my room each day. What can I do with those 40 minutes?

Jason Meggyesy:

That's awesome. That's an awesome story. I think just looking back on my experiences in school growing up, before college, you don't... Sitting across from you obviously, I can see you're a person and you would think like I do, but when I was in the third grade, I don't see Mrs. Johnson as... You know what I mean? It's just awesome to see you put into practice these people skills, and how teachers are actually developed is super cool to see. So what is the most difficult part of the work that you do, but also on the flip side, the most rewarding part of it?

Mary Culp:

The most difficult and the most rewarding part is that you work with people. You don't work with widgets. So kids aren't robots. They're going to run around the classroom. They're going to spin around. We tried to give them wiggly chairs. Wiggly chairs almost immediately was a privilege lost. As a perfectionist, I would love an ideal world where I walk into a class and all the kids are quiet and they listen and they turn in all of their homework and everyone gets an A on the test, and that's not the reality, but that's also the most beautiful part I think of what I do, is that it is messy and it's creative and people are constructing knowledge, and that's not a linear process. You'll have students... If you think of the growth chart of a student learning math skill, it's not straight up on a straight line. It's up and down and up and down and up and down. So it's a new challenge every day, but I love that I get to work with people and I get to see them grow as people. And it's not in a straight line and it's roundabout and you can't really predict it, but it's incredible.

Jason Meggyesy:

It's dynamic.

Mary Culp:

Yeah. It's super dynamic.

Jason Meggyesy:

And then the last question that I like to ask everybody, just because I'm curious. Freshman year... What dorm you live in? What dorm you live in freshman?

Mary Culp:

Collins Hall.

Jason Meggyesy:

Collins. So Mary, she's chilling. You can go into the dorm room and talk to her for an hour. What are you saying to her? What advice are you giving her?

Mary Culp:

What advice am I giving to freshman year Mary? Figure out what you are passionate about. Focus it and hone in on that. There's no need to join 25 clubs. Pick two or three things that you care about and run hard at those things. You're right on time. You're not too late. There's not as much pressure as you think there is.

Jason Meggyesy:

Mary Culp is an Inclusive Special Education major and a Disability Studies minor at Miami University. After graduation, she plans to become a professional educator. And thank you for listening to Major Insight. If you enjoyed this podcast, share with your friends or anyone interested in navigating college life. Many more episodes are now available wherever you get your podcasts.

SHOW NOTES:

Featured Majors:

• Inclusive Special Education
• Disability Studies

Featured Organizations or Internships:

• Student Council for Exceptional Children
• Access Miami

Faculty Shout Outs:

• Sarah Watt, Associate Professor of Educational Psychology
• Ashley Johnson, Senior Clinical Lecturer, Inclusive Special Education Program Coordinator

Career Clusters:

Education, Nonprofit and Human Services