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James Loy:

This is Reframe, the podcast from the College of Education, Health and Society on the campus of Miami University in Oxford, Ohio. Applying to college can be both thrilling and overwhelming. The process can be undeniably alluring for those eager to jumpstart their future, and yet for many the stress involved is also very real, especially now amid a global pandemic that has upended nearly every aspect of life.

James Loy:

This year many college applications may be missing not only ACT and SAT scores as many universities have now gone test-optional, but also a variety of other factors like many extracurricular activities that once set applications apart. And things not only look different for students, the landscape has also changed for college admissions professionals who are also scrambling to navigate this new reality. So on this episode we're here with Bethany Perkins, the Director of Admission here at Miami University.

She's here to talk about what college admissions looks like right now, how things have changed, and what parents and students need to know to make the best choices possible. Bethany, thank you so much for being here today.

Bethany Perkins:

You're welcome. It's a pleasure to be here.

James Loy:

So let's just start off with the big overview question. What does the college admissions process look like now in the time of COVID, how has it changed? And on top of the pandemic, just what are some things that parents need to realize about this process now, especially if things are very different now from what they may remember from having once gone through the process themselves years ago?

Bethany Perkins:

Yeah. No, it's a great question. I think it's easier to start with what hasn't changed, and that's that there is still so much at a student's digital fingertips when it comes to exploring colleges and universities and getting a feel for what in a campus community speaks to them, but in COVID that is most likely the primary mode of a student's search process. And it will mostly likely be all virtual for a lot of institutions through to a student being admitted right now. So I would say what's changed is that we've got to buck up and get over our Zoom fatigue that we're all experiencing because we're going to be going to information sessions and virtual tours and having one-on-one meetings with counselors all online.

Bethany Perkins:

And what makes this different I think for parents who went through this 15 years ago or so, so did I, this is a different world. I could not have fathomed having 4,000 institutions to choose from. I could not have fathomed having access to their virtual tours and their information, and now that a student can so easily go to multiple search sites and put in what's important to them to spit out a laundry list of colleges and universities that might be a good fit, that's a totally different game. It's also a very different world because higher education is a lot more expensive, and our conversations now are still about the experience, but they're also now about the return on investment. And we are answering a lot more questions now about career outcomes, average salary, likelihood to get a job, and those are important. I think it's very valuable to have those conversations, but admission professionals and institutions we're ready to answer those questions.

James Loy:

And one of the things you mentioned there was ... You threw out a big number there with 4,000 schools, so there's a lot of colleges and universities. How many should students be applying to? Is there an ideal number? Are schools dissimilar or similar enough where after 20, for example, it doesn't really matter anymore, or is there an ideal number, and now should students think about narrowing down the number of schools they apply to to focus in on what they really want?

Bethany Perkins:

No, it's a great question. So I'll share that there's no magic number that a student should have, but if a student is looking at an array of options in their sophomore year, at the beginning of their junior year, to just figure out what speaks to them and what's important to them, that's great. And if at any point that it feels like it's too many, everything's blurring together, the visits are blurring together, it probably is too many. It's time to sit down, think about what's important and to narrow the list down.

Bethany Perkins:

So let's say it's senior year for anyone who's listening or watching, and there is still a list of 20 schools. At that point, I would challenge a student that this might be too many. The average student applies to about 10. I would say that's a pretty good rule of thumb to try and keep to that number or under. And really, the process? There's no right way to do it, and it's really going to go student by student.

James Loy:

And when should people or students start thinking about college? Is it ever too early? I mean, especially when it comes to actually applying. What is an ideal time to start?

Bethany Perkins:

I don't think it's ever too early to start thinking about college. There are times I think it's too early to put too much pressure on oneself. There are times I think it's too early to reach out to an admission representative about how you can get in. We are pretty incapable of giving you very clear direction as a sophomore in high school on how to get in two years from now. But when it comes to searching and exploring, I'd say to sophomores: We're sending you mail now as a sophomore, so it's not too early to actually collect it and flip through and to put aside those that really speak to you and not throw them away quite yet.

Bethany Perkins:

And for juniors, it's not too early to start virtually or physically visiting campuses to get a feel for what is important to you and what just feels right. And then for seniors, it's never too early to start putting together a list of the schools that one is interested [in going] to and getting the deadlines all in a column, getting honors opportunities all in a column and really figuring out what the chances are for admission as best as one can.

James Loy:

And it seems like there's so many different factors involved in getting in a good school, and this may also be something that's very different today in the age of COVID, but you have to consider things like grades and test scores and prep courses and extracurricular activities, and everything is all wrapped into the process. There's just so many variables. Is that daunting for people? And are there certain things that should be prioritized over others? So will excellent extracurricular activities, for example, outweigh a poor essay, for example?

Bethany Perkins:

This is a great question because my colleagues and I have had a lot of conversations around what it must be like to be a rising senior right now. I could not imagine going into my senior year with no test scores, with having been transitioned to remote learning, whether I wanted it or not, and moved to pass-fail grades in a semester that I really needed to boost my GPA and to show how much I had been improving over my years in high school and then for the extracurricular opportunities that I was taking advantage of to be potentially cut short.

Bethany Perkins:

And we have students who were then thrust into being the primary caregiver because parents were essential workers and they have younger siblings who needed to still be in school who were virtual as well. I can't imagine the responsibility and the pressure that must be on parents and students' shoulders right now, but I'll tell you my colleagues and I are doing a really, really good job of trying to imagine what that must feel like and to tell students that even though extracurriculars and academics and, at some institutions, even test scores are important, the most important is a student taking care of themselves right now. And that most important is listing everything that one has participated in, even if that was family and childcare, even if that was boosting hours at the part-time job, because it's all one hard access to do.

Bethany Perkins:

I think right now it's just important, before I tell you that, yes, grades still matter, that we are paying attention to the context that we're all living in and doing our best to take care of our applicants right now. But a lot of us have gone test-optional or test-flexible, and a lot of students are going to be applying without test scores. So it is still important to prioritize challenging oneself in the most challenging course that a student can and balance that with the highest GPA, right? So it is a difficult balance to challenge oneself while still maintaining high grades, but both of those things matter very much in the admission process.

James Loy:

So now with so many schools now going test-optional, this is something that's made a lot of headlines recently, what does that change for admissions and for students? I know you mentioned just context now matters more than ever and grades, and courses obviously are still important part of the application process. But for schools that go test-optional, that's a big shift from just the way things have been done for years and years. So what does that change for students and for admissions, and what does that mean for how schools will determine things like merit awards and scholarships and things of that nature?

Bethany Perkins:

Not having test scores will change things for students. I don't think it's going to be as drastic of an adjustment as a lot of students and families may fear right now. And that's because a lot of institutions practice holistic review. So Miami is one of them, and we have multiple factors that we consider when making a decision. We look at the whole picture before deciding whether or not to admit that student, and a test score is very rarely in those cases something that will make or break a student. And there are other institutions, though, that have historically practiced something called evaluative review, so it's usually a few numbers like a GPA and a test score, and it's put into a formula and that spits out the decision, right?

Bethany Perkins:

It's definitely going to make more of an impact at institutions that practice admission review in that way or at institutions that typically had a minimum GPA and a minimum test score to get into. So just in those three examples there, I think the most important thing for students and families to keep in mind is that it is going to change the admission requirements at each individual college or university, and keeping track of not only deadlines but admission requirements, whether or not that institution is test-optional, test-required, test-flexible, test-blind. It's a lot to manage. But those are going to be really, really important this year, particularly for students who are interested in programs where we're less able to get around accreditation requirements in order to admit a student.

Bethany Perkins:

I think of nursing as one example. That's a program that right now at this time we are requiring test scores for accreditation reasons. So there is always going to be fine print at different institutions, and a student needs to just keep track of those things really well in this year in particular.

James Loy:

Now, that's a great explanation of how admissions is viewing what's changing with going test-optional, but what does it change for the student themselves? I imagine using their test scores was once a way to gauge how they match up with other students, how they were thinking about what schools they should or could apply to. How do they determine what's a reach school, what's a great match, what's just a safety school? Now without that objective test score, are students or should students apply for more reach schools? Are they saying like, "Well, I never would have been able to get in that school, but now without this test score, maybe I'll give it a shot and see and just go for it?"

Bethany Perkins:

Gosh, I hope so. I think this is one of those rare gifts that has possibly come to us from COVID. It's given us practically nothing positive, right? But if this is a chance for a lot of colleges and universities to move toward admission review that prioritizes a student's performance over a longer period of time than just a couple of hours on one day, then hooray. And I think students, particularly the students who got that first test score and then ruled themselves out immediately, will now think, "There is a chance for me to really rely on my merits and that I've proven myself in the classroom."

Bethany Perkins:

And I think of one student who applied last year, valedictorian, over a 4.0 weighted GPA, fantastic student, and she needed convincing to apply because of her test score. And she was so worried that that would make or break our review, and I loved that this student, the same profile applying this year, will say, "Oh, no, I have really good shot of getting in."

James Loy:

Does that make it equally important or maybe even more important to still keep those safety schools in mind? Just because you can without the test score, you don't necessarily want to apply to all reach schools, right?

Bethany Perkins:

Absolutely. I would say regardless of the requirements, it's really, really important for a student to ... Let's say if you're applying to 10 schools. Five of those schools should be a really good fit in terms of a potential match. And let's leave a couple to be safety schools and a couple to be reach schools. You never know, especially in a year like this one.

James Loy:

And you mentioned context being more important than ever now, especially in this holistic way of looking at the admissions process. How much is that applied to the high school that a student goes to and the relative strength of that high school? Is that more important now than ever? And how does a parent or student find out how strong their high school is or the relative strength of the classes that they're taking at whatever particular high school they happen to be going to?

Bethany Perkins:

I think that's a great question. That does vary a little bit school by school. I think it's really important when meeting with admission representatives or if you're lucky enough to tour campus when touring a campus to ask, "Will my child or will I be evaluated within the context of my high school?" And that's because at Miami University our admission review process actually allows for contextual review. We're looking at a student within the context of their high school. We receive a school profile for every application. We know how many AP courses a student had available to them, whether they have access to College Credit Plus courses in the State of Ohio. We know whether courses were moved to pass-fail or whether courses are being completed in-person or remotely. We know all of that context when we're looking at a student's GPA. So it's not as important as one may think that a student goes to this ranked high school here versus this high school here because we're taking those things into account when we're reviewing admission applications.

James Loy:

Is it at all beneficial to go to a highly rated school district or a private school? And if one has the opportunity to move to one, would that help or is it always just better to stay the course, stay where you're at and just be the best student you could be at your current high school?

Bethany Perkins:

I think you just hit the nail on the head, right? Strive to be the best person you can, community member that you can, and strive to be the best student that you can wherever you are. And hopefully, you're applying to institutions that value access and value diversity and value your experiences. And I'm proud that I can confidently say, "No, this is not about who has the most means to take advantage of the highest level courses and to be able to move from district to district to go to a private school."

Bethany Perkins:

Those can benefit students. Absolutely. But for the student who doesn't have access to any of those things to know that we as admission representatives have some tools in our toolkit to keep in mind the courses that are available to a student and to be able to clearly see a student who is at the top of their class or challenging themselves as much as is available to them. That is huge regardless of whether that institution or that school is public or private or what the ranking is.

James Loy:

So let's talk a little bit about the essay. It's one of the most well-known parts of applying to colleges. For some people it's probably one of the most dreaded. It can be mysterious. So what are you really looking for in a college admissions essays? Is it creativity, personality, accomplishments, writing skills, all the above, something else? Is there anything that's the most important thing?

Bethany Perkins:

I'll answer it this way. The most important questions that we want answered in an essay are what do I now know about this student's personality, and what do I now know about what drives that student? We have most likely gone through a list of extracurricular activities, and we've seen the transcript, and now I want to know why that student participates in the activities they participate in. I want to know what's really behind all of that.

Bethany Perkins:

So if a student can accomplish that in a super creative way, and if a student can accomplish that in three paragraphs, beginning, middle and no funny business whatsoever, that student has still done their job. And I will say standing out, if it can be achieved, is important. And creativity is important but not at the cost of being professional and being authentic. So we do look that a student has edited. Of course, we do. We'd love to see that a student didn't rush things, that they didn't procrastinate, and that they care enough about their application to our university to have gone through it one more time to capitalize, to punctuate and really organize their thoughts in a thoughtful way.

James Loy:

Can you tell when there's clearly an interest being shown in the university? I mean, can you tell when you get a generic essay where you're like, "Oh, clearly, this has been sent to five other places and we're just on the list." I mean, is it okay to use the same essay for multiple applications, or is it always better to personalize it for the school you're applying for?

Bethany Perkins:

I love this question because I think what is authentic about a student rewriting an essay to be what they think a college or university wants to see or read? What am I then actually getting that is the true voice and the true personality of the student? So I am all for a strong, authentic, this is who I am essay sent to 10 different institutions because then you're putting it into our hands to know if this is a role we're looking to fill. And if you have done your job of saying, "This is the role that I'm going to play and that I want to play in any campus community that I'm a part of," then, again, you've done your job with the essay and you've done it an authentic way. You were true to yourself.

Bethany Perkins:

And I think that's the most important thing, and that's definitely not generic. That's you. That's a voice only you can have, and I would say that it also avoids the potential of me getting an essay accidentally written for another institution. And that has happened more times than I can count in my career, and I would love if a student just avoided putting the name of an institution in an essay altogether.

James Loy:

Okay. Yeah. So using the wrong college name in the wrong essay. It seems like at least one thing that can be easily avoided.

Bethany Perkins:

Yes.

James Loy:

Are there are other things that students should avoid? I mean, COVID, for example, is a topic that is on everyone's mind. Is that a topic students should not write about? Are you seeing that way too much? Is COVID fatigue a real thing right now? And are there other topics that you also just see way too much?

Bethany Perkins:

I would say the phrase unprecedented times is something we're all sick of, and I would hope that we don't see that in many essays. But it is really important to recognize that for many applicants, this pandemic has been an upheaval, and it's been transformational. This might be the opportunity for a student to best tell us about their resilience, to best tell us about what they really value, what happens when the chips are down and life is hard. So for the student that can best tell us about what drives them and who they are even when it's hard. If that's COVID, don't avoid it. Talk about it and tell us how you've overcome those challenges.

Bethany Perkins:

It's the student who shares a story that we read a lot, and there is nothing outstanding about it that I worry for. So it's okay to write about the sports injury. Keep in mind, we read about a lot of sports injuries, so there needs to be something outstanding, something we really learn about you. I think, too, we read a lot of essays about a person who influenced a student. And my advice is: If once I get to the end of that essay I want to admit that parent or that grandparent or that influential person, not you, you probably haven't taken what has influenced you and told us enough about your personality and how it's applied to your life. So just keeping the goal in mind I think is really important. That we want to know about you regardless of the topic you choose.

James Loy:

All right, great. Shifting gears a little bit. Early admission is another topic that is a big question mark for a lot of people. How important is it to apply early, and does it help or increase your chances of getting in? And what if you aren't sure about where you want to go or where you want to study? Is it still important to apply for early admission?

Bethany Perkins:

So this is a question that I think will potentially add pressure where I wish I didn't have to add pressure in COVID. But it is probably more important than ever to pay attention to those deadlines, to adhere to the deadlines and to recognize that colleges and universities have undergone serious budget losses in sending students home remotely or even starting remotely this year. And there are going to be institutions out there that have to manage even a scholarship budget very carefully and will probably do that around deadlines.

Bethany Perkins:

Admission and new students, this is mission critical, so scholarships will still be available to students, but the student who applies late who misses the deadline and still wants grace? As much as possible institutions will try and be flexible, but when it comes to scholarships, that's going to be tough this year. So it is really important to pay attention to those deadlines, and when it comes to admissibility, the earlier the better. What students will commonly find is that early decision, which is the binding version of an application deadline, tends to have the highest admit rate at institutions and then it goes from there. Early action has a higher admit rate than regular decision at a lot of institutions. So the earlier you apply, the better chances of your admission, and also, it may be make or break for whether or not a student receives a scholarship or the highest level scholarship available.

James Loy:

That is good to know. And another big question mark for a lot of people is undecided students. I mean, high school students many of them it's a lot to ask, right, for a 16, 17, 18-year-old person to know exactly what they want to study and know exactly what kind of career they want to have. So being undecided is probably more the norm than anything. What should students look for in their school of choice if they are undecided? Are they better off selecting something that they think they might be interested in or just picking a school and staying undecided?

Bethany Perkins:

So I love undecided students, and I am full of advice. That is partly because I can relate. I was an undecided student myself in my first year. So a few things. I think look for institutions that have a liberal arts focus where students are encouraged to study multiple subjects. Ask questions like, "Can students double major? How easy is it to double major? How easy is it to add a minor at this college or university?" Those are usually good signs that a student who is undecided can come in and have some time to explore, and it's also usually a good sign that a student who comes in having said, "I think I want to do this." And then they take that Psych 101 course and it changes their lives forever, right? That those courses can still apply to a different degree or that there's the possibility of a double major.

Bethany Perkins:

So I think they're really good questions that a student can ask to make sure that they have a lot of flexibility. Going to a college or university that has a very limited number of majors might not be the best option for an undecided student, but at the end of the day, most of our students are going to graduate and go onto jobs that don't exist right now. Most of our students 10 years from now will be in jobs I can't even fathom at this moment. And there are some programs for which I think a student can be certain and they can know that this profession will always be around. I think about education. I think about healthcare, nursing. And I think about social workers. I mean, the helping professions will always be here, right? We will always need teachers, and we are more appreciative of them than ever I think right now.

Bethany Perkins:

But there are so many other professions that regardless of a student's major. This is really four years to prepare students for a career, prepare students for life that doesn't necessarily have a linear path. So it's okay to not be following a linear path to knowing exactly what you're going to major in and exactly what the next four years are going to look like.

James Loy:

How about for first generation college students? What would you say to them? Are there specific things that they should consider or advice that first generation college students should have in mind and approach the process in any certain way?

Bethany Perkins:

Find your person. Your admission representative is there to support you and counsel you, and particularly if you have not gone through this process before, you don't have a sibling who's gone through this process or a parent, this is your person, so you find them, you ask them all the questions, and this person will help guide you through the admission process. I think having someone to really go to when you're anxious or when you don't know if everything got in on time or if you don't know if you're missing something. I think about how many of our first generation students just don't know what they don't know unless they have a person in their life guiding them and helping answering those questions.

Bethany Perkins:

Admission counselors, we love our jobs because we love to counsel students, and this gives us an opportunity to show you exactly what that kind of support can look like. So find your person. And other than that, go about this as if you have all of the options available to you early on. Be realistic about the options that you have available. Do you want to stay close to home? Is money a factor? And keep your options open early, but feel free to explore. Don't think because your parents haven't gone through this process that you should limit your opportunities. There are a lot of institutions like Miami that really value first generation students, and we'll do the best we can to not only admit but yield you. We want you to be here.

James Loy:

Yeah. And speaking of you don't know what you don't know, financial aid is also another complex area of things that you have to consider, whether you're a first generation college student or not. What tips do you have for navigating the financial aid process? Is it all about need as determined by FAFSA or are there other ways to save money or other factors to consider?

Bethany Perkins:

It is going to vary institution by institution. Going into this next year, there are likely going to be more institutions shifting some of their merit dollars to need-based aid given the influx and increase in request that we have for financial need. So that will likely be a transition for some institutions, and really both matter. And that's going to vary. Whether it's a public or private institution, that will vary.

Bethany Perkins:

The best advice I can give to a student really concerned at this stage -- I'm saying before applying -- about financial aid, is to not trust the sticker price anywhere and to not rule things out yet, but to ask good questions. It's okay to ask admission professionals, "What percentage of our students receive financial aid, and what is your average merit award? And can you guarantee scholarships if I have a certain GPA?" For example, Miami University this year we've done away with test scores as a minimum requirement for scholarships, and we're able to tell students a 3.5 GPA will earn you a scholarship.

Bethany Perkins:

Just even having that kind of certainty, a student can move forward in the process and say, "Okay, I'm going to worry right now about getting in. And once I've gotten in, then I'm going to worry about whether or not this a financial fit for me and whether or not this is a social and academic fit for me." So I would hope that students can ask a few important questions at the beginning about how accessible financial aid and need-based aid are to only then just not worry about it for a little bit. There is enough to worry about at the beginning of the admission process.

James Loy:

And that sense of certainty or maybe not certainty but just a sense of what to expect on at least some level can play a big part in who chooses what college and why. And a lot of people get that feeling once they visit a campus. They get a sense of ... they can imagine themselves going to this place or they're like, "Yes, this is what I thought it would be like." We hear that a lot at Miami, right? People come and they visit campus and they're like, "Oh, this just feels like home. I'm definitely going here." But what does that look like in COVID when people start thinking about campus and visiting campus either virtually or in-person? What does that look like now?

Bethany Perkins:

Yeah. That's a great question. I think in COVID things are going to change next week. So I will tell you how things look now, and things will probably shift. But still, a lot of opportunities are virtual. And if a student does come to campus, they're most likely going to see a few things. They're going to see examples of how they will be taken care of and kept safe and what our standards are if they want to be a part of our community next year. And we're finding that students and families want to see and hear that, so we'll be proudly requiring masks of our guests. There are some offices of admission that are taking guest temperature before they walk in the doors or admission offices like ours that will just be asking for a health assessment to be done by oneself before they arrive on campus.

Bethany Perkins:

And students and families will see a lot of curbside tours where you check in via text and the tour guide meets you outside and you don't go into buildings. And you'll see a lot of events are still suspended and that we're doing smaller groups on campus, but that's not the case everywhere. And every college or university is doing it a little bit differently. What we have seen a rise in is the DIY or self-guided tour. And we were actually just filming on campus, yesterday, our tour guide speaking at different points of interest, so that in the future someone doing a self-guided tour around our campus, if for whatever reason we aren't here and available, they'll be able to scan the QR code and have that experience in that space of a student speaking to that place on campus.

Bethany Perkins:

I would say more than anything we want you here, we want you here safely, and that means it's going to look a little bit different probably for some time.

James Loy:

Now, so far this conversation has obviously been predicated on people who have been thinking seriously about college for quite a while, and that's generally the best way to think about it, right? Be prepared. But there are inevitably going to be some people who, I don't know, just never thought college was for them, or maybe they have a teacher that inspired them late in their high school career and they think, "Oh, maybe I really do want to go to college. Maybe this really is for me." What are some things that someone can do if they wake up tomorrow and be like, "Oh my goodness, why have I not applied for college yet? What can I do to catch up quickly?"

Bethany Perkins:

I love this question. Number one, there is absolutely an opportunity for students to start that search immediately. I think about how I wake up, and if I'm inspired and want to know anything, I have my phone right there and I can start searching out that information. So I think, digitally, there are so many ways for a student to immediately access information about institutions that might be a good fit based on their academic credentials and what their needs and interests are to get started.

Bethany Perkins:

Secondly, the high school counselor is a great resource, and this is a chance to get over that immediate panic and know that it's going to be okay because there is someone on-staff at the high school dedicated to helping guide students through just these kinds of questions; what are my options now that I'm thinking about college? And I also love the transfer option and the different opportunities that students have now to start at a community college and to easily see that there are scholarships available, transparent transfer credits and pathways to degrees.

Bethany Perkins:

And more and more I see students who maybe wait a little too late for some selective institutions who are able to easily find their way through a satellite campus or a community college because someone comes into their life and says it's not how you start, it's how you finish. And we can start with the degree you want to end up with and find a way there.

James Loy:

You obviously see this whole process from a different perspective than most people being on the inside of the process and from a high-level as well. So now that you're in the position you're in, what are some of the things you know now that you wish you would have known back when you were applying for college? And now as the director of admissions, is there anything about the process here at Miami that you find very unique?

Bethany Perkins:

First of all, I think that ... I wish I had known how much institutional goals play into an admission decision and how much it's sometimes not the student, it's them. And that a student really shouldn't get too down on themselves if they're not admitted because there are institutional goals that each university has every year that sometimes have everything to do with whether a student is admitted or not admitted. And that has nothing to do with what a student could have controlled.

Bethany Perkins:

And every institution receives application after application after application each year, and for many of us, Miami included, we have more qualified applicants than we have spaces available. So very often it comes down to shaping the class based on the values and the goals that an institution has. And it's not just about the numbers. And that's a great thing. I wish I had known all that went into the decision that I valued when I got it in the mail, right? But I wish I had known just how much thought went into making that decision.

Bethany Perkins:

And I think with Miami University, it wasn't surprising to me, but I still I'm so inspired by how consistent our admission processes and our admission decisions are with our values and to be in the room in committee, to be in the room when leadership is really debating and going through and going back to a council recommendation before making a decision about a single individual, to see how much time we spend on every application reading every word and going back to things like the recommendation, the essay to what that student can contribute to the community when we have almost 20,000 on our campus is pretty incredible.

James Loy:

Is there anything that people miss that you think should be obvious? I mean, again, from your inside perspective, what are some of the things that nobody asks or really considers but they absolutely should?

Bethany Perkins:

What should be obvious to me is that when you have an admission representative on the phone or in front of you at a high school visit and we're giving you our individualized attention, I wish that it was obvious that you can ask questions tailored to your individual experience that you want. And unfortunately, we spend so much time answering questions that are readily available on the website or right there when you get to the admission section. And it's important for students to know the middle 50% of our students each year -- the GPA and test scores. I completely understand. But I so wish that we were spending more time talking about whether or not we have the clubs and organizations or the major that a student wants and what that's like and what the average salary is for students who graduate. I wish that we were having more conversations like that than we are right now about affordability, about whether or not a student can get in, when some of those things unfortunately are just not black and white answers this early in the admission process.

James Loy:

And finally, are there any myths or misconceptions about the whole application process that you'd like to clear up?

Bethany Perkins:

I think that there are two that immediately come to mind. One myth is that there's one perfect school out there for you. There's not. There are thousands of colleges and universities out there. And that second, third or fifth school on a student's list might surprise them. So I would say that I hope that students would understand that even though this is a very emotional decision, that very, very often there are multiple great fits out there.

Bethany Perkins:

Then, secondly, especially this year, one of the myths that I would hope to debunk is that an admission office is looking for reasons to deny a student, or we're looking for you to slip up in the admission process. We are offices of admissions, not offices of denial for a reason. And most of us are admitting more students out of our application pool than not. Only at a small handful of institutions are there the admit rates that we see in the news. And I would hope that students would recognize that if even they're worried about their GPA right now or not having a test score or wondering how in the world colleges are going to make a decision about their admissibility, that they would just trust us to do the best we can with all the information given knowing that we want to admit students who will graduate and be successful and have a fantastic college experience.

James Loy:

All right. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for all of that information, all the pro tips and all the insights on how to navigate this process, especially during this time.

Bethany Perkins:

Yeah. Thank you. It was my pleasure.

James Loy:

Bethany Perkins is the Director of Admission here at Miami University, and thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Reframe Podcast. If you know any parents, teachers, students, anyone who might also be interested in the college admissions process, please share it with them as well. You can find this episode as well as all of our episodes wherever podcasts are found.